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Garmin G5s as complete replacement solution
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Chris in Milwaukee
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Garmin G5s as complete replacement solution Reply with quote

Hi all,

I thought I'd break this out into its own conversation so not to distract from the subject of the magnetometer thread.

In a dual G5 setup - AI and DG - since it's redundant, can they be used as primary instruments and replace *all* instruments in the six pack? Or are they only meant to replace the gyro-based instruments? Every function is covered in a pair of devices that resides in the individual instruments.

Might be a question for the avionics shop. But wouldn't it be cool to put the G5s on the right two positions on the panel, and then have the remaining hold a flush-mounted tablet with Foreflight or similar? Smile

Thinking out loud, as usual.
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flyfish1



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Question. The STC explicitly states that the G5 can be used to replace either the Attitude, the Turn and Bank, or the DG in a certified aircraft. That means it can be your primary instrument for only one of those installations. If your attitude indicator is used to drive an autopilot than it cannot be the primary attitude indicator. Now the certified version of the G5 can easily switch from PFD attitude display to DG and back. This is a nice feature and offers much redundancy with a two G5 configuration, however each G5 must have its designated replacement installation. It does have secondary data like airspeed, altitude, heading, nav etc. if connected. So yes in an experimental you could fly easily with just the one instrument. Hope this explains it.
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Chris in Milwaukee
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so. I'm thinking about it for my Maule installation. It would be nice to remove all of the classic instruments, and then replace them with two G5s. But it sounds like, in a certificated installation, that it doesn't fall within the realm of what the STC covers. Sounds like the non-gyro instruments have to stick around (altimeter, airspeed, vertical speed).

Thanks for the clarification,
Chris
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gbarrier
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the STC:

(2) The installation of the G5 requires the retention of the mechanical airspeed indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed
indicator. If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude, it requires retention of the existing rate of turn indicator. If
installed in place of the rate of turn indicator, it requires retention of the existing primary attitude indicator.


I would read this as you can use the G5 as attitude and HSI but must retain rate of turn indicator. How do ya'll read it?
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DeltaRomeo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the Maule minimum equipment list. Basically all the vacuum instruments can be replaced (since they aren't listed) with the G5 and the vacuum system eliminated. Your AI, VSI, Altimeter have to stay.
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Chris in Milwaukee
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks team. Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade to dual G1000s, then. Cool

Appreciate the guidance. Getting rid of the vacuum gear would definitely be welcomed.

~Chris
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DeltaRomeo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of the dual G1000's, opt for a PT6 conversion of the O-360. Cool
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captnkirk
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are starting done that path here. “ If you give a mouse a cookie “Those that have young children or grandchildren will understand this. I believe you can find the book on amazon
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Kirk Johnson
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SlowFlyer



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just eliminated the vacuum driven HSI and attitude indicator with 2 G5´s. I am about to eliminate the vacuum pump, but I first need to get a cover plate for the engine.

Those G5 units work great, in case of attitude indication failure you can switch the second one to attitude, 4 hour battery backup on each and reasonably priced.

Teddy
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gbarrier
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen to all of the above. Love mine more each day.
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Stinger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlowFlyer wrote:
I just eliminated the vacuum driven HSI and attitude indicator with 2 G5´s. I am about to eliminate the vacuum pump, but I first need to get a cover plate for the engine.

Those G5 units work great, in case of attitude indication failure you can switch the second one to attitude, 4 hour battery backup on each and reasonably priced.

Teddy


When I upgrade my panel, I'm just going with the one G5 for the DG/HSI.
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captnkirk
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have panel envy. Saw Gary’s G5 setup this weekend and his enterfaces with the 430. Be still my heart it’s only money😭
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Kirk Johnson
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gbarrier
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bring a handful of cash and come on down Kirk. We'll hook you up.

Seriously, thanks for the compliment. We've been pretty happy with them.
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Chris in Milwaukee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeltaRomeo wrote:
Look at the Maule minimum equipment list. Basically all the vacuum instruments can be replaced (since they aren't listed) with the G5 and the vacuum system eliminated. Your AI, VSI, Altimeter have to stay.


Just reviewing the REL, the vertical speed indicator isn't on that list, either. Hard to believe that you only need airspeed and altimeter, but I guess in reality, you only need to know how fast and how high! Lest the ground reach up and smite thee.

Next obvious question, then, is if the plane was originally equipped as IFR, as longs as the replaced instruments replicate the functionality, can it still be IFR certified?

I don't know that I'll ever fly IFR ($7000 to save $100/year on insurance??). But I reckon it's a nice selling point one day.
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DeltaRomeo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I dug out of the FAR's: (it is paraphrased)

IFR MEL: (per FAR 91.205)

(1) Airspeed indicator.
(2) Altimeter.
(3) Magnetic direction indicator (compass).
(4) Tachometer for each engine.
(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.
(6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine.
(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.
(8 ) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.
(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.
(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system.
(12) If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant
(13) An approved safety belt with an approved metal-to-metal latching device for each occupant 2 years of age or older.
(14) For small civil airplanes manufactured after July 18, 1978, an approved shoulder harness for each front seat.
(15) An emergency locator transmitter, if required by Sec. 91.207
(16) For normal, utility, and acrobatic category airplanes with a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 9 or less, manufactured after December 12, 1986, a shoulder harness for--
(i) Each front seat that meets the requirements of Sec. 23.785
(17) For rotorcraft
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) Clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8 ) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).

Notice that is says nothing about having a Glideslope indicator or RNAV, GPS, etc.

EDIT: With the exception of operating at FL240 and above; I don't think any Maules qualify (maybe the turbocharged versions).

The question becomes what an avionics shop will interpret/approve as IFR certifiable; and/or what a CFII will accept to train you in.
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo on Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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