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Hard starting-anything I have missed?
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norcal64d



Joined: 29 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Front Range Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LH mag is sent off to get serviced and the new Surefly mag should be delivered next week. PIREP will follow!
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TxAgfisher
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015
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Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this Surefly deal isn't by airframe/engine so it would work on say, an O-470?

Edited: found the website, seems like variable timing ability would lead to better performance under power and more efficient burn in cruise. I may have to look into this.

Can anyone smarter than me tell me if mags are side specific?
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TJ Van Matre
Previous and future Maule owner slumming it in a 180!
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TimB
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject: mag Reply with quote

The Surefly can be install left or right, I replaced the right mag with the Surefly and removed the R/.H grounding bar on the mag switch so it starts on both mags. Yes starts better, more power.
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TimB
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TimB
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: mag Reply with quote

and at cruse power 1 gal per hr less.
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DeltaRomeo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Can anyone smarter than me tell me if mags are side specific?"

Yes they are; the left side in most cases has an impulse coupling that delays the timing from it's fixed setting of 25º to near 0º for starting by use of a spring and a coupling that trips over a cam to spin up the mag for a stronger spark that cranking speed can't provide. Once about 400 rpm is reached a centrifugal mechanism over rides the impulse coupling and it performs the same as a non impulse coupled mag. The left and right mags have two different part numbers.
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Dave and Kim
1981 M5 180C
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FARMAULE
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Location: West Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject: Spark plugs Reply with quote

Sounds like you are already down the path of a new mag which doesn’t sound like a bad idea if not just for the performance gain and efficiency. How new are your spark plugs? There is an article I believe written by mike bush about Champion spark plugs and how they will pass traditional testing methods but fail a resistance test. I worked on an airplane that was having starting issues like you described. Checked his plugs and found them to be the old design. Quick check is to pull the lead and look inside the plug. If it has what looks like a flat head slot it’s the old design. The new plugs cures the starting issues in this example. Plugs are cheap in the grand scheme I guess. May be worth a look. Just found the article. It’s titled CHAMPION AEROSPACE: FROM DENIAL TO ACCEPTANCE in an AOPA online doc. A good read. Hope this helps.
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norcal64d



Joined: 29 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Front Range Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, that's pretty interesting stuff! I'm fairly certain all of my plugs are the new style but I'm going to verify just to be certain now that you showed me that article.
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Andy Young
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Location: Alaska, Antarctica, Colorado, and Others

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it’s worth, I tested a lot of the old-style Champion spark plugs for resistance while that whole controversy was developing. Many of them failed the resistance test, but based on the guidance from Champion at the time, I re-used them. None of them caused a running problem in any of the engines.

That said, I now use the Unison plugs (unless a customer insists on Champions) because they work just as well, and cost a lot less.
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TimB
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorted out three slick coils for me and know of two others, I put down the revolver but you can hold it and pull the trigger good luck
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TimB
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norcal64d



Joined: 29 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Front Range Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update for you guys. Replacing the points in the left mag and resetting the internal timing to the e gap fixed the hard starting issue as far as I can tell. I attempted to install the Surefly non impulse coupling version on the right side and found there was a oil line in the way since the Surefly is a bit bigger than a Slick. Its a simple fix, just need to rotate the fitting 180 degrees and everything will fit. That fitting however is so damn tight it just rounds off with a snap on wrench and the only way to move it is to tighten down a crescent wrench so it's really tight and tap it on to the fitting. The range of motion is so small that I could move it a bit, but nowhere near far enough. I tried a crows foot, 30/60 angle head wrench, and nothing would move it any more. Since I have to fly the plane home from Alabama to Colorado in a couple months I put it all back together with the slicks for the time being rather than risk breaking something. Any suggestions? I've attached a picture of the fitting, it looks blue but it's actually steel and black. My only idea is to use a small pipe wrench on it with a cheater bar and just replace it once it's out.

Another option is to replace the studs on the left side and remove the impulse coupling adapter and just forgo having a impulse mag as the backup.

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Andy Young
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad that worked out. Who ended up doing the mag work for you?

For that fitting, I’d try a pair of Knipex pliers:

http://www.knipex-tools.com/home/

Because of the mechanical advantage built into the design, they work far, far better that you would imagine.
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Andy Young
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little heat would probably help as well, especially if it’s steel, as the aluminum case will expand more quickly, loosening it up. You might have some dissimilar metal corrosion in there if it really is steel. I’d be a bit concerned about it pulling some of the aluminum threads out of the case as it comes out.
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norcal64d



Joined: 29 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Front Range Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used those pliers but it could potentially work. I got the fitting to move about 30 degrees with a big crescent wrench so it isn't completely frozen. Good point on the threads though. That fitting hasn't moved since 1991 when the plane was built I bet.

I sent the mag to Greg Boom, he was fantastic to work with. Only hickup was the log entry didn't make it into the box when the mag came back to me but it should be in the mail.
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norcal64d



Joined: 29 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Front Range Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought is I can probably get that fitting out with a small risk of it failing. However, if I go that route I'll wait till the plane is back in Colorado to tackle it. The other option is to just swap my left mag instead at the cost of losing a potential backup of the impulse coupling.
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Andy Young
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Location: Alaska, Antarctica, Colorado, and Others

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d be hesitant to not have an impulse coupling on the backup mag; if the electronic failed and you needed to start on the mag alone, you’d want that impulse coupling. Of course, I’m thinking of backcountry scenarios, where getting out can become the #1 priority. If just going airport to airport, there’s no reason to take off with one half of your ignition system not working anyway, so in that case, it wouldn’t matter.
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