Landing with Back Seats full?
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
I've had some encouraging preliminary news from my repair shop. They've had a quick look already, but will give it a good going iver on Monday. But at first glance said it doesnt look bad, and recommended holding off on calling my insurance.
Llano is already increasingly likely for me this year too.
But first, some practice laps around the circuit. Actually, I'd reaaly like to get some more guidance from Rick, but this time in my own plane.
Llano is already increasingly likely for me this year too.
But first, some practice laps around the circuit. Actually, I'd reaaly like to get some more guidance from Rick, but this time in my own plane.
-
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:32 pm
- Location: Jackson, MS
- Contact:
ground loops
Brenton,
For pennance, re-read what Loogie said 3x each day, for next six months.
Fly Fly Fly.
I was almost "signed off" for TW endorsement in a gorgeous tailwheel mail, when I decided to buy a Maule nosewheel.
This decision was not easy, but after seeing my instructor's student ground loop, and an ATP active pilot Gloop his experimental airplane in a period of only 2-weeks .... well, let's just say other people helped me make the decision to go tricycle.
There is a reason TW insurance is >2x the insurance of Nose draggers. It is not that you were a bad pilot, just that TW's are unforgiving, what-so-ever.
IF your TRUE desire is back country flying, and landing on 'a postage stamp', stick with your TailWheel.
Like LOOGIE says, go with 3-point landings ONLY!
My TWheel instructor is one of the best pilots in this country, and he would not let me do 'wheels' at all. He discouraged Wheel landings in Maule due to lower control effectiveness at low speeds.
I fly a good amount (>600 hrs over 6 years), and attest that I have landed in some very windy 'shit-storm' crosswinds in my nose wheel. If I was in a tail-wheel in those same situations, a ground loop would most likely have occurred. Statistics rule.
I have utmost respect for any Tail Wheel pilot, but my contempt at mother natures ability to create cruel winds, with zero warning time, has brought me to nose wheel flying.
We are all human, and not perfect. Take a well trained pilot, and well rested too, ... but yet a split second mis-judgement can occur.
Good luck.
Whatever you choose, please do not give up.
Best for 2015.
Steve
2008 Maule MXT-7-180.
For pennance, re-read what Loogie said 3x each day, for next six months.
Fly Fly Fly.
I was almost "signed off" for TW endorsement in a gorgeous tailwheel mail, when I decided to buy a Maule nosewheel.
This decision was not easy, but after seeing my instructor's student ground loop, and an ATP active pilot Gloop his experimental airplane in a period of only 2-weeks .... well, let's just say other people helped me make the decision to go tricycle.
There is a reason TW insurance is >2x the insurance of Nose draggers. It is not that you were a bad pilot, just that TW's are unforgiving, what-so-ever.
IF your TRUE desire is back country flying, and landing on 'a postage stamp', stick with your TailWheel.
Like LOOGIE says, go with 3-point landings ONLY!
My TWheel instructor is one of the best pilots in this country, and he would not let me do 'wheels' at all. He discouraged Wheel landings in Maule due to lower control effectiveness at low speeds.
I fly a good amount (>600 hrs over 6 years), and attest that I have landed in some very windy 'shit-storm' crosswinds in my nose wheel. If I was in a tail-wheel in those same situations, a ground loop would most likely have occurred. Statistics rule.
I have utmost respect for any Tail Wheel pilot, but my contempt at mother natures ability to create cruel winds, with zero warning time, has brought me to nose wheel flying.
We are all human, and not perfect. Take a well trained pilot, and well rested too, ... but yet a split second mis-judgement can occur.
Good luck.
Whatever you choose, please do not give up.
Best for 2015.
Steve
2008 Maule MXT-7-180.
Passing the faster planes, as they re-fuel ðŸ˜
-
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 1665
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:31 am
- Contact:
Very thoughtful and informative and well said post, Steve. Your experience mirrors mine exactly. This is one of the reasons that I decided to buy a tri-gear. I have found that my tri-gear will get me in and out of any Idaho Washington or Oregon strip that I feel it is appropriate for me to go to.
I am an AME in Richland, Washington. Please call for an appointment!
560 Gage Blvd.
Richland, WA 99352
(509) 628-2843
560 Gage Blvd.
Richland, WA 99352
(509) 628-2843
- PatinLoco
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:20 pm
- Location: El Salvador
- Contact:
Steve:
I understand, and respect your point of view. I love flying trikes, as I do any airplane. I have more hours in trikes in my logbook, specially because most of my time is in twins (all but one, trikes). But, all, except one, of my aircraft are TW. Why? Because I love the challenge, and being part of a smaller, more exclusive community. I am not saying that trike pilots are less competent or enthusiastic. My brother has over 10,000 hours, and every single one of those hours are in trikes. He is not interested at all in flying a taildragger! And, he's a great pilot. It's a matter of taste.
I believe, from personal experience, that the ground loops to my name, and flying TW airplanes, and going out and challenging myself, have made me a better pilot. Even the ground loops have taught me a lot, not only as a pilot, but as a person.
My point is, Steve, that it's a personal choice. Even if he is not interested in landing "on a postage stamp". When I want to land on a postage stamp, I fly a chopper! I still fly a taildragger the rest of the time.
I understand, and respect your point of view. I love flying trikes, as I do any airplane. I have more hours in trikes in my logbook, specially because most of my time is in twins (all but one, trikes). But, all, except one, of my aircraft are TW. Why? Because I love the challenge, and being part of a smaller, more exclusive community. I am not saying that trike pilots are less competent or enthusiastic. My brother has over 10,000 hours, and every single one of those hours are in trikes. He is not interested at all in flying a taildragger! And, he's a great pilot. It's a matter of taste.
I believe, from personal experience, that the ground loops to my name, and flying TW airplanes, and going out and challenging myself, have made me a better pilot. Even the ground loops have taught me a lot, not only as a pilot, but as a person.
My point is, Steve, that it's a personal choice. Even if he is not interested in landing "on a postage stamp". When I want to land on a postage stamp, I fly a chopper! I still fly a taildragger the rest of the time.
Eduardo
___________________________________________________________
My Mom said "Please dear, fly low and slow!" So I bought a taildragger!!
___________________________________________________________
My Mom said "Please dear, fly low and slow!" So I bought a taildragger!!
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
-
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 1665
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:31 am
- Contact:
Brenton C wrote:I sure appreciate all the input and advice I'm getting. I can certainly see for myself why some of you explored the TW, and decided to go the different way!
At this point, I don't want to surrender the TW, but it's an option I may come back to at some point.
With the nose wheel you lose some extreme off airport ability, ramp presence, a little speed, and maybe a half inch of dick size.
You gain about $1,500/year in insurance savings (that's like free maintenance and annual for me), and some peace of mind and safety.
Trust me, flying well is not 'easy' in a nosewhelel per-se either.
Last edited by Mountain Doctor on Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am an AME in Richland, Washington. Please call for an appointment!
560 Gage Blvd.
Richland, WA 99352
(509) 628-2843
560 Gage Blvd.
Richland, WA 99352
(509) 628-2843
- PatinLoco
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:20 pm
- Location: El Salvador
- Contact:
- Beamerpilot
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:15 am
- Location: Alberta Canada
- Contact:
Hi Brenton,
I heard about an incident at High River and wondered if it was one of us. Glad to hear all went well for pax and limited damage to the Maule.
As for ground loops it's your last one...so keep at it.
Most of us have been there, two for me one with my Cessna 170 at the Ottawa Gatineau airport with a 90 degree xwind and one while checking out a new Maule pilot (joined Circle V Flying Club) at the Rockliffe airport. No damage in either but that was luck more than anything else. That was back in the 80s.
With more than 40 years of commercial flying and a valid instructor rating under my belt I went to Greg myself for instruction following my Maule purchase. Well worth it since I hadn't flown a light tail dragger in years.
As for 3 point or wheel landing, the debate will go on until the last tail dragger hits the museum. When conditions are somewhat uncertain I still 3 point it in and pin that tail wheel down with elevators, it just works for me.
Let me know (PM)if you decide to fly north of Red Deer some day, we occasionally have a few Maules on my strip. Sometimes it's good to just sit in the right seat with another pilot and absorb.
Cheers,
Guy
I heard about an incident at High River and wondered if it was one of us. Glad to hear all went well for pax and limited damage to the Maule.
As for ground loops it's your last one...so keep at it.
Most of us have been there, two for me one with my Cessna 170 at the Ottawa Gatineau airport with a 90 degree xwind and one while checking out a new Maule pilot (joined Circle V Flying Club) at the Rockliffe airport. No damage in either but that was luck more than anything else. That was back in the 80s.
With more than 40 years of commercial flying and a valid instructor rating under my belt I went to Greg myself for instruction following my Maule purchase. Well worth it since I hadn't flown a light tail dragger in years.
As for 3 point or wheel landing, the debate will go on until the last tail dragger hits the museum. When conditions are somewhat uncertain I still 3 point it in and pin that tail wheel down with elevators, it just works for me.
Let me know (PM)if you decide to fly north of Red Deer some day, we occasionally have a few Maules on my strip. Sometimes it's good to just sit in the right seat with another pilot and absorb.
Cheers,
Guy
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
- Beamerpilot
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:15 am
- Location: Alberta Canada
- Contact:
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
- Beamerpilot
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:15 am
- Location: Alberta Canada
- Contact:
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
Another factor?
One thing I didnt mention was that my plane is shod with some over-sized AirHawk tires. I'm not sure the size, but they're smaller than the 31"ers some of you have. You can sort of see them in my avatar.
Talking to my repair shop,today, they recommended replacing them with a more standard size until I build up some 50 or 60 PIC hours in my own bird.
The suggestion was that these big tires are less forgiving on pavement, and help things go bad fast, when things go a bit awry.
I wonder if others have experience about this aspect?
Also, by way of updates, one or two wing struts are damaged, so my insurance company will be involved again, after all. D@mn it!
One thing I didnt mention was that my plane is shod with some over-sized AirHawk tires. I'm not sure the size, but they're smaller than the 31"ers some of you have. You can sort of see them in my avatar.
Talking to my repair shop,today, they recommended replacing them with a more standard size until I build up some 50 or 60 PIC hours in my own bird.
The suggestion was that these big tires are less forgiving on pavement, and help things go bad fast, when things go a bit awry.
I wonder if others have experience about this aspect?
Also, by way of updates, one or two wing struts are damaged, so my insurance company will be involved again, after all. D@mn it!
- Njacko
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:26 am
- Location: SW Scotland, UK
- Contact:
I would say the reverse. My Maule seems much more forgiving/controllable with 31" ABWs and double puck brakes. Never going back. Anyone want a used pair of MX-7-180 wheels, discs and 8.50x6 Goodyears?
If your knackered struts are the old type requiring annual inspection AD, then trashing them could be a blessing.
Most of all, don't give up on conventional gear. Even trikes can get blown off the runway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... rport.html
Peter.
If your knackered struts are the old type requiring annual inspection AD, then trashing them could be a blessing.
Most of all, don't give up on conventional gear. Even trikes can get blown off the runway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... rport.html
Peter.
MX-7-180 N280SA
- Brenton C
- 100+ Posts
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:03 am
- Location: Calgary, AB
- Contact:
Hi Pete,
Thanks for your input here.
Unfortunately, they were the nice new style sealed struts. No upgrade by way of misadventure to be had there.
I have decided that I refuse to be discouraged by this episode. I"m eager to get back up and get practicing, developing my skills, and most of all, enjoying the privilege I've worked so hard for.
Thanks for your input here.
Unfortunately, they were the nice new style sealed struts. No upgrade by way of misadventure to be had there.
I have decided that I refuse to be discouraged by this episode. I"m eager to get back up and get practicing, developing my skills, and most of all, enjoying the privilege I've worked so hard for.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests