How much different?

69m · Post by **69m** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:06 pm

I have been getting my tail wheel endorsement, is a maule a whole different animal than a cub? I'm sure there are differences but will it be a big transition? Should I be looking for a different tail wheel to train in?

Is there any maules around palmer to rent?

I'm paying 150hr for a cub, anyone willing to rent out their maule for that?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:46 am

A Maule is a little more airplane than a Cub. That J3 is a good first teacher, though.
I would search around for a Cessna 170 for rent. About fifty hours in that will prepare you for the Maule. The 170 is heavy and under powered but a very good teachers. It would serve you well to have some high performance time before transitioning into the Maule, as well. You need to devote you time to flying and driving the maule without being involved in learning how to operate an HP motor at the same time.
With complex and high performance in the book, I think I had about fifty hours in a 170 along with a few hours in champs, cubs and Citabria when I bought my M4. I had no trouble at all.
Thirty years ago, who would have thought a J3 would rent for $150/hr. In the 70's, J3 cub's and champ's were all over the place for less than $10,000. What is that about hind sight.
Have fun with the transition, you'll never be the same.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:15 am

I've got an MX7-180 which I instruct in, but no solo allowed due to insurance... Currently on wheels, but should be going to skis here before too much longer. The Maule is quite a bit less forgiving then the cub and would suggest you would want instruction on wheels, not skis as they are relatively forgiving.

dunbarst · Post by **dunbarst** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:46 pm

My two cents worth: I had about 200 hours in 150's and 172's, then 25 hours in Champs and then bought a 140. Flew it everywhere, including some places in the mountains that were right at the limit. Totalled about 200 hours before trading up. Bought a M5-235. Had a two-hour checkout and I was off. I managed not to bend it in 700 hours including some fun excursions to the Idaho and Utah backcountry so I must have learned something. A little luck, a lot of diligence in taking care of the airplane and planning and a lot of thinking before acting and you'll be fine.

The Maule was much easier than the 140 or Chanp in my book. The 140 was a great teacher. it was so light the wind would push it anywhere and you had to work the pedals hard on a windy day. The Maule was heavier and the inertia made it feel smoother when getting banged around. The lack of power in the 140 required you to always stay ahead of the airplane and the terrain. The Maule had enough power that you could get yourself out of messes you never should have been in. Get good at whatever you have access to then go out and buy your Maule. Expand you envelope slowly and it will all work out.

flyseneca · Post by **flyseneca** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:43 am

While the J3 or similar basic aircraft is certainly easier to "train" in, I suggest that if you plan on buying a Muale you try to do all of your training in a Maule. Virtually all TW training is good if received from a qualified instructor, but the problem you may not be thinking about not is insurance rates after you buy. They will want to see as many hours in not only category and class--but model as well. This is especially true if you are a lower time pilot (say less than 1,000 hrs).

I have flown with several pilots who trained in something other than a Maule--then bought an M7--and had to get 25 hours of dual in their new aircraft.

Skip Guimond
MX7-180B

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:57 pm

I have a Cessna C-140 with a C-85. In my opinion the little Cessna is a piece of cake, no bad habits, joy to fly. No power at all though.
My Maule on the other hand while being far more capable, will bite if your not careful. You can get real stupid in the little Cessna and save it, but not the Maule.
Yes the little Cessna is maybe the best little airplane in the world to teach basics in, but it won't in my opinion equip you to handle a big engine Maule.

mike.whiskey · Post by **mike.whiskey** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:09 am

The Maule is the most forgiving tailgragger af all. The reason for that is the power/weight relation. Looots of power for little weight... And a high-lift wing...So, for the beginning, just practice lightweight at no wind mornings and afternoons on grass strips. Fullstall treepointers, again and again.
With time you will find out that jou may take off from the tree point attitude also, not raising the tail at all. Try to practice with the wind direct in front of you, leave crosswinds for later, when you feel safe... Hell of an airplane, lots of fun. Loves short turf and grass backcountry strips, hates never ending concrete and asfalt...

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:48 am

mike.whiskey wrote:The Maule is the most forgiving tailgragger af all. The reason for that is the power/weight relation. Looots of power for little weight... And a high-lift wing...So, for the beginning, just practice lightweight at no wind mornings and afternoons on grass strips. Fullstall treepointers, again and again.
With time you will find out that jou may take off from the tree point attitude also, not raising the tail at all. Try to practice with the wind direct in front of you, leave crosswinds for later, when you feel safe... Hell of an airplane, lots of fun. Loves short turf and grass backcountry strips, hates never ending concrete and asfalt...

Sorry, but I must dissaggree with you as the maule is far from being the most forgiving airplane of all!! It is short coupled, with a narrow gear, and as a flight instructor myself, it would be downright stupid to fly this aircraft solo with no training in it from someone who has... Some pilots are quicker to pick up the nuances of the maule, some are much slower... You obviously must be one of the quick learners? This attitude contributes greatly to what is one of the highest priced insurance rates out there on wheeled airplanes.

N9657 · Post by **N9657** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:31 pm

When you say it is easy or hard to fly a Maule it is the same as saying is it easy or hard to fly a Piper or a Cessna. What model, what power, what wing. My M5 180 is not the same as a M7 235. Also, I took my tailwheel training with Ray Maule on a 160. My insurance was high the first year, but AVEMCO gave it to me with only 10 hrs of tailwheel.

Post by **andy** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:59 pm

I don't agree that a Maule is an easy taildragger to fly. I've flown a variety of taildraggers and I think my Maule MX-7-180 is the most challenging of the lot. It's short-coupled, fairly high powered (even with a 180 hp) and heavy-tailed. The large side profile gives crosswinds more area to push. A 235 hp Maule would be even more challenging.

greatplanes · Post by **greatplanes** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:54 pm

I had 120 hrs in a 150 hp cessna cardinal,( By the way the cardinal was so cordinated that I had no real idea what the rudders were for untill I got into the maule) thats what I learned to fly in. The airport was at 4000ft asl and it was the middle of summer, lots of pucker factor especially flying out of Cheyenne Wy. My next airplane was a maule I rebuilt with a 220 franklin and when I was done I had a local instructor check me out in it, he signed me off in less than 3 hrs of instruction. My maule had the old drum brakes and the scott tailwheel. I never worried about if the wind was blowing, I just went to the airport and went flying. I have owned cessna 140's, pitts, eaa biplane, cessna 180, wilga 80, compair 6, and have owned over 50 airplane in the lst 15 years and the maule has always been my favorite as far as taildraggers.
Go buy your maule and have fun! Make sure it has a scott tailwheel. You will catch on quick enough, use some common sense and you will be fine. Remember you are flying this plane in the air and on the ground!

tworude · Post by **tworude** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:36 pm

I learned to fly a conventional gear aircraft in my M5-235. I had a very difficult time handling it on the ground to the point where I thought that I made a mistake going with a tail dragger. I got good at it though then found out that my tail wheel was broken and simply floating back there. It is MUCH easier to handle after I rebuilt it. If you can pay attention to your aircraft until it is completely stopped then I would not be concerned with those people who talk about short coupled, etc. My Maule is easy to handle. I have not flown any other tail draggers so I cannot comment on them but how can it be any easier.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:18 pm

I have done Maule checkouts that took only an hour and a few takeoffs and landings - And I've also done checkouts that took 10-15hrs and the pilot still wasn't comfortable yet. Pilot skills, hand/foot eye coordination vary greatly amongst pilots out there and that's why I suggest at least fly with someone that can save the bacon until you're comfortable in the Maule... Another problem encountered quite often is high time nose dragger pilots that have developed bad habits over the years in nose draggers, and these habits can be harder to break then you'd have training a green low time guy that hasn't had the chance to develop sloppy skills yet? Extreme overconfidence / ego is another issue which sometimes enters into the equation as well. Being a CFII with over 20 years experience, I can tell you that you never judge skills by flight time as the most scared I've ever been while instructing was with the occasional HIGH TIME guy that I assumed would keep us out of trouble! You just never know and I have learned to always error on the side of caution over the years. I'm sure Jeremy would say the same and probably has stories to tell as well?

Island Flyer · Post by **Island Flyer** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:17 pm

I went form a Piper J3 Cub (90 hp) to a Maule M7 260. Big difference, the first take off had enough torque to basically take me left of the center line about 45 degrees. Pretty humbling. I flew with George Kirkish (CFII) on Vashon Is and I knew I had started to get it when at the flight ending the 13th hour he said "Rhys, today you didn't kill us". I haven't looked back since but always give the plane absolute attention and respect. I always remind myself to keep dancing on the rudder pedals. There is no substitute for excellent instruction and I plan on being a life long student.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:53 pm

I purchased my MX7-180 after getting my tail-wheel endorsement in a PA11 cub special. My suggestion is get a good instructor, get comfortable in the Maule, get some time in it then go back and get some refreshing and correcting of any of your bad habits you might have picked up. I have a blast flying my Maule and wouldn't go back.....

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