Going from MX-7189 to M-4180v, can't get landings as short

piperboy84 · Post by **piperboy84** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:43 pm

Long story short, being flying MX-7 180 with full 48 degrees of flap range with the long wing from the farm strip in Scotland. Crashed it a while back and it's totaled, at the same time have a M4-180v with the shorter wing in the USA where I put 200 hours on it landing on big old long tar runways, moved the m4 back to Scotland to replace the crashed mx7 and now can compare each ones performance on the same short strip. Could normally consistantly land the mx7 in about 450 to 500 feet with full flap trimmed right back nose right up no power and give it a quick burst of power just prior to touch down to arrest the decent rate. Can't get the M4 to land shorter than 650 feet in similar conditions I just don't seem to have the elevator authority to get the nose up to the attitude I could the MX7 I find myself pulling back hard on the stop and thinking there should be more, I know it rigged right. Is there another method I should be using , the M4 just seems to drop out the sky if I cut the power unlike the mx7. Any ideas ? I need a new technique ?

Edit to add: the m4 full flap is only 35 degrees

Post by **andy** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:16 pm

Elevator gap seals?

Post by **andy** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Also vortex generators to make the slow speed stall more manageable.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:20 pm

You are running out of elevator when trimmed full back.
Trim only half way and carry a small load on your arm and you will have lots of elevator authority.
Does that particular M4-180V have the full 48 deg flaps ?
What approach speed are you with 48 degrees down.?

TxAgfisher · Post by **TxAgfisher** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:04 pm

You'll have to get used to the sink rate on the shorter wing. Fly a shorter, steeper pattern. Below the white arc, burst of power to arrest it.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:13 pm

There is an updated flap ratchet from 15/35 degrees to 20/40 degrees which will help.

piperboy84 · Post by **piperboy84** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:20 am

Well this is embarrassing, I was thinking last night after I started this thread that when I was flying the M4 in the US I did not seem to have this problem but thought because I was landing on big old runways I never noticed it because I was not feeling the need to pull it up short.

THEN,,,

I got up this morning and read the first response from Andy about elevator gap seals and banged my head with my hand. When I picked it up 2 days ago from the shop that put the wings and tail back on here in Scotland after it came out the container the first thing they said was that the could not put the old gap seal back on as it was damaged and asked if I could order a new one and they were unsure if maule had a particular recommendation for the spec. I took the plane and said I'd get back to them and forgot about it.

I am amazed the elevator gap seal makes this much of a difference.anyone know if this is a special order or off the shelf product, is it something spruce sells?

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:12 am

The gap seal kit is something we make up. I can get you out one first of the week when we return to work. Call or email Bryan 229-985-2045 or parts@mauleairinc.com to request one. Email is probably easier.

plowboy · Post by **plowboy** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:47 pm

Ahem, elevator gap seals were not legal on a M-4. Please don't look at mine lol.
the factory may have changed this however.

TxAgfisher · Post by **TxAgfisher** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:35 pm

Think they came standard on the 180V, not flight tested on the original 4's therefore not approved.

Mog · Post by **Mog** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 pm

Gap seals or not you should be able to bring that M4 in much shorter. I do not trim on approach, and if Iâ€™m going for short then I stay at pattern until final. Then I let the plane drop like a stone at 50ish MPH. Right before touch down I tend to stab the throttle and give it most but not all of the elevator. Pretty typical maule short approach. But as said before the short M4 drops fast. I will typically plop the plane down fairly hard, kill the flaps and get hard on the brakes with the tail coming up high. This yields some pretty stupid short landings.

Gals seals are interesting and I would love to hear that they are legal now, but I donâ€™t think they will solve your problem. The higher angle flap ratchet will help though for sure in my opinion.

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:57 am

What flap settings are you guys preferring for these steeper, slower approaches to short landings?

I'm anticipating wheel landings, rather than 3-pointers, if that makes a difference to flaps.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:31 pm

To be on top of your Maule, practice all configurations.
Late models have 5 flap settings, earlier have 3.
Short, Soft, wheel and 3 point in each setting.
Headwind, left wind, right wind and light tailwind in each flap setting.
Approach speeds and angles will of course be different for each.
If uncomfortable, find a good tailwheel instructor and get a BFR at same time.

Mog · Post by **Mog** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:54 pm

When Iâ€™m out doing short landings (Iâ€™m no expert by any means) I am at full flaps by final. I drop in and flare/arrest into a three point and roll out on my mains only. I have found this to work in decent cross winds from either direction. Again, I am not someone to model after, Iâ€™m just relaying what I am doing. But I can get my short wing to stop pretty quickly without all the typical STOL mods for the maule.

DeltaRomeo · Post by **DeltaRomeo** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:45 am

Piperboy; what year model is your M4 180V?

Going from MX-7189 to M-4180v, can't get landings as short

Going from MX-7189 to M-4180v, can't get landings as short

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